Natural Golf Q & A
Do you have a question or comment about Natural Golf ? Send it to Marty at Marty@switchtonaturalgolf.com
Question from Neil: Fantastic website! My question is about loss of distance with the Natural Golf method. I started using the NG swing about 8 years ago. First, I just used it with the driver to straighten out my slice. I used my conventional swing with every other club and played to an 8 handicap. About 5 years ago as I had less time to play and practice, I switched completely to NG and bought a set of Pipeline irons (5-SW) and beryllium copper fairway metals (3,5,7). Unfortunately, I've experienced a great loss of distance. With my conventional swing, I used to consistently hit a 5 iron 200-210 yards. With NG I have to use my 5 wood to get 200 yards. With NG I tend to hit the ball really high and fall short of greens. I hit extremely straight and am satisfied with that aspect, but am not scoring well because I can't seem to hit greens in regulation. Is something wrong with my swing or is an equipment change in order?
Marty:
First, hitting a 5 iron 200-210 yards
puts you near the top in distance for amateur golfers. I hit my 5 iron 175 yds. I
hit my 7 wood about 190-200 yds. These distances are fairly average for a 4 handicap,
maybe a bit on the short side. I think you probably had a longer backswing and
generated more club head speed with a conventional swing. The shorter Natural Golf swing
will make it difficult to match the club head speed you had before.
However, I think you can still play excellent golf by keeping the ball in the fairway
and on, or very near, the green. You may want to check your backswing to make
sure you are cocking your wrists and getting the club shaft to at least a 90
degree angle with your left arm. Ideally, the club head would be above your
left shoulder at the top of your backswing (not in your left pants pocket
like John Daly!). Your hands should be at the same height and just behind
your right shoulder at the top of the backswing. This should still enable
you to hit solid, strong shots…but maybe not quite as far as you hit before.
I have not heard from NG golfers that they are hitting their ball too high, though
I agree that's a real problem, especially if you play in strong winds like I usually
do. It's more common for NG golfers to hit the ball too low, often because they sweep
the ball off the turf and don't take a divot. This makes it difficult to
hit and stay on greens. You may want to check your ball position and tee
height. Graves golf sells a training/practice device for checking your address
and ball position. This might be helpful to make sure your impact position is ideal.
Question from Jeff: I'm 68 yrs old, and I have been working with your pointers that you give at your website. When I address the ball to maintain a rodlike position with the shaft and arm, then where does the end of the grip point (Hip or Armpit). When I try to align my armpit, then my wrists feel like they're bowed upward? Yes I'm using yardsticks for width of my feet, and distance from the ball.
Marty: The grip should point at your midsection…just above your belly button and between it and your left hip.
Question from Scott: Great website! I have one question for you. I played yesterday and really struggled hitting out of the rough. Any tips?
Marty:
Yes, hitting out of the rough, especially if it is heavy, requires some adjustments.
First, you'll want to play the ball further back in your stance (toward your trailing foot).
Second, you'll want to make a steeper swing that makes a descending strike on the ball
and takes a divot…at least a fist-size chunk of grass. If you try to "sweep" the ball
out of heavy rough, your club will likely not stay on line as it travels through the
grass and will not maintain its speed. You're likely to just advance the ball a short
distance.
One more idea…your first thought once finding your ball is to assess the lie. If the ball
is mostly below the grass, your best option may be to just hack it back into the fairway
with a wedge. If the ball is mostly above the grass, you may be able to get it close to
or on the green by using an extra club or two and punching the ball out.
Question from YouTube: This swing is technically very sound actually. I tried it at the range and I never hit so straight in my life. The only thing I can't understand though is why your finish is sort of cut off..?
Marty: Good question. On the backswing, the right arm folds at the elbow as the left arm is extended. The reverse happens on the follow-through. The left arm folds at the elbow as the right arm extends. There's no need or value in continuing to rotate your arms around your body since the ball is long gone.
Comment from Michael:
I started to play golf
after a 15 year break. I was on my high school golf team and was fairly
decent at conventional golf. I have
attempted to hit balls for a month now and have been having the worst
time. I started to look on the internet and
observed Natural Golf and the Moe Norman single plane swing. I wanted try this since I
was not committed to
conventional golf. After about two weeks, I was
doing a lot better but could not complete a full swing without slicing
the ball.
Then two days ago, I watched your video on gripping the golf
clubs. I noticed that your right hand's index finger was extended like
you were pulling a trigger. I attempted to reproduce this grip and
WOW. I can swing as hard as I want and I hit all my clubs well. It
has fixed my slice 100% . I went to the driving range yesterday and my
son could not believe it. I was driving balls 250 yards (with an old
Callaway driver), and I was hitting my 3 iron 200+ yards consistently
straight as an arrow, when last week I could not hit anything less
than the 7 iron with half swing. I just wanted to thank you for your
grip because I have never seen or heard of extending your right hand
index finger away from your other fingers. I believe it has made me
keep the club square upon impact.
Marty: I'm glad to hear of your success. That's why I created the site; to help people play the game better and enjoy it more. Extending your index finger is sometimes called the "trigger position" because it helps you square the clubface on impact. I'm glad it's working out for you.
Comment from Kent: Nice website. I however have sought Graves Golf for my instruction now. Not to bash NG but it is enlightening now to see why Moe was changing grips and clubs now. He was being influenced and needed the money. I really believe the grip Todd is advocating is the way to go.(Moe's pre 94') When I started playing NG 14 years ago, hooking was a problem. Now with the overlapping grip I don't have the problem any more.The overlapping grip keeps the hands in unison. I think Todd is really teaching the Moe swing. NG is a hybrid and unfortunately pushes their equipment as a necessity. I bought NG clubs several years ago and now I have to choke up on the clubs because they are too long. The grip difference is huge (left hand in fingers and under heel pad and right strictly in fingers) and I really believe Todd is focused on the swing itself. Well just wanted share my thoughts.
Marty:
I'm glad the overlapping grip is working out for you . I personally prefer using a 10-finger
(baseball) palm grip with the grip placed in the palm of the right hand and under
the left hand heel pad. I do hit occasionally hooks, but that's mostly because I like
to play a draw and avoid missing on the right. I agree that new clubs are not necessary
for NG. It's too bad NG promoted this so much because it detracted from what should
have been the focus; the NG technique.
I do think some people tend to be too dogmatic regarding Natural Golf.
There's no single set of theories that will work for everyone. For example, I
prefer a larger grip that fits more easily in the palm of my right hand. But
I also like Graves Training grip and often practice with his training club. My
basic belief is that golf is more enjoyable when you achieve consistent results.
I try to demonstrate the aspects of Natural Golf on my website that have worked
well for me, an amateur trying to improve over time.
Question from Tom: I am really having a problem starting my downswing by lunging the right shoulder to start the downswing which destroys any positive outcome. Any suggestion that might help with this problem?
Marty:
If your right shoulder is lunging at the ball, focus on keeping your upper body quiet and
swinging more with just your arms. Moe said he first got the idea of Natural Golf by watching a
carpenter hammer a nail. That's a good image to keep in mind. All you have to do is
rotate your image and imagine the back of the ball is the nail and the club head is the hammer.
Try hitting short pitches with just 1/2 backswing. Your hands don't need to go much higher than
your waist. Keep your right elbow close to your body and just pretend you're hammering a nail
using your forearm to swing the club.
Question from Mike: Love your website. I looked at natural golf a couple of years ago, but couldn't really break it down into digestible bites. Your videos and website does exactly that - thanks. I have a couple of basic questions. First, at address, should you feel like you are flexing your left elbow up, or kind of a slightly forcing extension of the arm?
Marty: More of an extension of the left arm as far back as you can comfortably reach. You don't want your left hand to rise much, if any, above your right shoulder. Moe Norman kept his left arm fairly straight and extended across his chest. You also want to keep your right elbow tucked into the side of your torso so it allows your right forearm to hinge upward. Your right elbow should stay close to your torso and point to the ground. You must avoid a "flying right elbow", where it points to the horizon.
Mike: Second, in your videos, just before your backswing, you seem to rotate your left wrist backwards slightly (look at your watch face). I can't tell if the clubhead is also rotating or if you're just twisting slightly around the grip?
Marty: I'm just trying to naturally allow my wrists to hinge in the same manner you would for using a hammer..not trying to swing with the entire arm but just allowing the wrists and forearms to hinge and deliver the club head back to the ball as if you were hammering a nail.
Question from Bernie: Marty, what are your thoughts on the reverse taper grips, like the "Feel" products, with a thicker top end and skinny bottom? I put one on a driver last year, and it seems to accommodate the NG grip as taught by the Graves brothers rather well. Still thick in my right (trail) hand, but thinner in the left (lead) to allow more grip in the fingers, as opposed to full palm in both hands.
Marty:
The Lamkin Jumbo grips I use have a taper. They are larger at the top, about 3.5", and taper
down to 3.0 inches at the fingers. I always heard this referred to as a "regular taper".
That's the type of grip I prefer since I find it easier to release the clubhead and hit a
draw. Lamkin, and others, also make a reverse taper which is larger at the bottom of
the grip and smaller at the top. I guess these might be preferred by golfers who hit too
many hooks and want to avoid releasing the club too early.
By definition, Natural Golf promotes a straight ball flight instead of a draw or fade.
However, I find it better to play a draw and try to take away one side of trouble on the
course. The tapered grips help me do this.
Question from Matt: I think your website is great. My question is what kind of video camera are you using? Does it have a slow motion feature, or do you just pause it at different positions in your swing? I have been studying your swing and I am hitting the ball so much more consistently than with the traditional swing. I would like to check my swing out on video and just wanted to know if you used any special type of camera in particular.
Marty: I have an older low-end Sony video camera. It does not have a slow motion feature, which would be helpful in checking my swing positions. I usually bring my video camera home and watch my swing on a large TV screen. I have found this to be very useful. My next camera will have a slow motion feature.
Question from Alex : Love your site and the NG idea, I am a high handicapper and just starting back in the game after giving it up for a few years, I have been trying to learn the conventional one plane swing since starting back and like the concept of a natural swing, keep it simple - less complications.the questions I have is: Do I start the downswing by thrusting the left knee towards the target? Also as you are in a square position at impact and not open: Does it mean that you get your weight onto your left side by the left knee then throw your hands and arms down towards the target trying to keep them ahead of the clubface? I don't have a NG instructor in my area but would love to learn the NG swing, any help would be gratefully appreciated.
Marty:
The best advice I can give you on the downswing is to not "thrust" anything. You want to gradually
build club head speed. You also should maintain a lag between your hands and the club head until
you reach impact. Moe was quoted as saying you should "lead with left leg and lag with the right"
but it's easy to over cook this idea by thrusting your lead leg. I think it's better to just let
the left leg move naturally, the way a baseball player strides into the ball but maintains his
spine angle and head behind the ball at impact.
As for your hands, I don't like the concept of "throwing them" at the ball. I prefer to think
of just sweeping the ball off the ground (although you should take a divot for your irons).
Question from YouTube(Icfielder11) : Marty Thanks for all the vids. I used to play a lot years ago and was about a 25 handicap so I was never all that great. I recently started playing again and was struggling terribly until I came across your videos. I am now actually striking the ball first on my swing; I'm hitting much straighter; and most important I'm much more consistent. This is only after 2 weeks of using your videos as my only form of instruction. I have a question about the swing maybe you can answer for me. At the point of impact when I am releasing into the ball, should I continue to roll my wrists through contact or hold the full unhinged position for better results? I seem to be fading my irons and still slicing my driver a little. Is this from not continuing to roll through impact or is my clubface maybe open a little too much at address?
Marty: You do need to release your wrists on impact to achieve clubhead speed. The timing of the release is critical - too early or late will result in low clubhead speed and little distance. As an example, try hammering a nail and you'll see if you break your wrist too early or late, you'll lose most of the force. Finally, the toe of the club should pass ahead of the heel for a full release. You don't have to hit a draw, but you need to have your hands and clubhead rotate to generate adequate speed.
Question from Lee : Thanks for your time and effort to help people like me who are somewhat athletic but don't have the time to practice enough in order to have the timing of a good two plane golfer. I just started with natural golf and was amazed as to the immediate accuracy without any detriment to distance. One thing I noticed was that on occasion I would lose balance after the swing and hook the ball. I'm assuming this is the centrifugal force that may be increased by reaching out for the ball and pulling my torso forward. Any thoughts and fixes?
Marty:
Glad you found my site helpful. Hitting a hook is probably the most common error with the Natural Golf
swing due to the "strong" grip position. That's my most common error too as I prefer to play a draw and
will hook the ball if my backswing gets a little long or if my wrists get too active. However, you should
not be losing your balance during or after the swing.
You probably need to make just a few minor adjustments. One is to limit your backswing to keep your
hands no higher than your right shoulder. Another is to limit your hip and (left) shoulder turn.
Unlike conventional golf, you don't need to get anything near a full (90 degrees) shoulder turn.
Moe Norman just turned his left shoulder and his hips slightly, only about 30 degrees or so. Moe
also kept his right elbow close to his torso on the backswing so he could focus on a "hammer like"
swing from the shoulder to the ball. There's not much follow through needed after that.
When you combine the items above with a wide stance and keeping your head behind the ball through
impact, you'll find it very easy to stay in balance. Avoiding the hook takes practice and adherence
to the Natural Golf swing keys.
Question from Joseph :
I played NG 10 years ago. I had some luck with it but moved on after I couldn't get much distance
with my driver. Recently, I found my hips as a great power source. I got my driver speed
over a controlled 105 mph and striking it well using my One Plane swing method. Then,
the unthinkable happened. My nice draw started to turn into a devastating hook. I could
not seem to control it and had to resign from the course.
I believe the cause of the hooks is because the One Plane swing is a baseball type, handsy swing.
The backswing/downswing pattern is an exaggerated in/out path. As my playing time increased
using the swing, so was the efficiency, in turn, causing a greater in/out path with my hands
turning over way too much hooding the clubface. Now, it so ingrained into my swing pattern,
I cannot seem to shake it regardless of what type of swing I use.
As I made peace about hanging up my clubs for a long time, I found your site. I decided to give
NG a GO once again. I have some older clubs with fat grips and followed your advice on this
website. The swing seems solid enough and the NG grip is not allowing me to hood the club.
One question... my hips generate much of my clubhead speed. Is this out of the question for NG?
Marty: Hooking is one of the most common problems for the Natural Golfer.
If you can make a few adjustments to turn this into a controlled draw, you can play very good golf.
Here are a few ideas:
1. Limit your backswing. You don't need to swing like a home run hitter. Take a look at some videos
of Moe Norman and you'll see his left shoulder doesn't get fully below his chin and his club shaft
doesn't reach parallel with the ground. A shorter, more compact swing will reduce the tendency to
pull the ball. (I'm working on this now. I've realized from viewing my videos that my swing is a
little too long and that my club shaft should NOT point right of the target line at the top of
the swing).
2. Don't try to snap your wrists on impact. That works great in baseball and it's why Henry Aaron
hit so many home runs, but it will create hooks in golf. Your wrists should "naturally" rotate after
impact with the toe of the club head passing the heel. You should not try to force this on impact with
the ball.
3. Check your grip, it should not be too strong. The "V" formed by the left hand thumb and index
finger should point just to the right of your chin. If you rotate it clockwise (to the right) it
will lead to closing the club face on impact. Your right hand "V" should point up along your right
forearm toward your right ear. If you rotate this hand clockwise, it will be too strong and cause
hooks.
As for your hips, they should NOT rotate much in the Natural Golf swing, maybe about 15-25 degrees.
If you rotate them more, you can create a great deal of power but your swing will likely go off
plane and you won't be able to control it.
Question from Richard: I have used the conventional golf swing for over 25 years, and have been messing around with the Moe Norman swing and have more distance and control ( some times ) . I'm using standard clubs and grips. I read a few of your articles on changing grips, would changing grips to a bigger size change the feel of my clubs? weight, etc, and lose distance. What size in the lamkin do you recommend?
Marty: The short answer is, "Yes", changing the grip size will result
in a different feel of the club. However, I don't think this is a big problem. After enough
practice on the range, you should feel comfortable with the grips and feel of the club.
I use the Lamkin Crossline Jumbo grips, but I have a larger than average size hand. I used to play
with Large size golf gloves but have developed a better feel without a glove. I'd recommend trying
two different grip sizes on two of your irons (it's great if you have a few spare clubs). Grip
size is really a matter of personal preference, but I like the larger size since they are less
likely to slip in my hand.
Question from Yuri:
I have recently taken up golf about 1 month and a half ago. A good friend taught me the
conventional swing (he is a 10 or 8 handicap), which I must say requires an incredible sense of
timing. I could manage my irons but I would avoid my drivers. The drivers being longer felt like
a nightmare to control.
I stumbled upon your website advocating the natural golf technique though I think this is a
misnomer as nothing in golf is natural. Of course, I understand the implication of it being
easier and it was a lot easier. It took me a few weeks but I got it worked out and I hit with
my driver straight and close to 200 yards, probably 195 yards (I am playing with a bunch of
rather outdated spaldings, but I love it anyway). I can do this fairly consistently. All
this self taught, which should say a lot about the system.
Sometime soon I'll get myself
a set of decent clubs, but for now it's just me and 11 spaldings.
Since I am using conventional clubs, I don't mind the grips being smaller. I seem to manage
decently but I'm considering getting my clubs fitted with Lamkin as you so often encourage. I
personally would not like to switch to NG clubs but rather my idea is to get fitted to a set
of clubs that are right for me. That may be Ping, Callaway, Titleist, Nike... whatever. In
addition to the fitting, I would consider trying out fitted grips for at least one club
(#7 iron) and see how that goes. My one concern is that I intend on playing in tournaments,
and will these Lamkin grips be in conformity with USGA rules?
Marty: It sounds like you've made great progress. Hitting good shots
consistently after less than two months probably puts you in the top 1% of new golfers. If
you're interested in getting fitted for clubs, you should first take a
little more time to refine your swing. I've been fitted a number of times, mostly with PING
clubs, which I like the best. But the fitting for a Natural Golf swing will be different than the fitting
for a conventional swing, so you probably will want to make sure you're comfortable with your
swing before making a large investment in fitted clubs.
I'd recommend trying some "demo" or used clubs if there's a shop in your area that provides
such deals. You may also want to go to a "Demo day" when several vendors (PING, Cleveland,
Callaway, etc) have their clubs available. If you try a number of clubs, you'll start
developing a good sense of what you like and hit well. The demo day is the best way to
try a lot of clubs in a short time and also get some tips from the sales reps. I've usually
found the sales reps to be knowledgeable about their equipment and good at recommending
the best clubs for your swing speed and ability. Keep in mind that most golfers progress
through several different sets of irons and woods as they lower their handicap. The
right club for a 20 handicap is often not the right one for a 10 handicap.
As for the grips, I'm not aware of any professionally made and sold grips which are not USGA
approved (except for the preformed grips on training clubs such as the Momentus). The entire
line of Lamkin grips are USGA approved.
Follow-up from Yuri:
I checked out something from Todd Graves on youtube.com describing the leverage bag drill and
he said that it is important to keep the trail arm slightly bent at the moment of impact
then afterwards it straightens out and the left arm bends in response. Also that the hands
should lead and actually just split seconds before impact they should be ahead of the ball.
I realized what I had been doing wrong this whole time. I was hitting the ball with my trail
arm straightening out (the straightening out in the Moe swing comes after the shot) like
in a conventional swing. I believe this is problematic because I am trying to mix things
up and create a sort of hybrid but I don't have the skill for this.
Since I don't have a leverage bag to work with my idea of a practice drill is to stand
sideways beside a wall. Then set up the rod like left arm stance and then grip with the right
hand from underneath in a way much like you demonstrate on your website. The point of this
drill is to keep the trail arm slightly bent just before I intend to strike the wall. Of
course, I am not going to actually strike the wall but the emphasis is on 3 things: the
back of the left hand should come to a halt just touching the wall, a feeling of pushing
into the left side and the trail arm slightly bent while attempting to hit the ball like a
hammer. If the trail arm remains slightly bent, then the club will not tap the wall but
if the conventional swing is used then the club will tap the wall. What do you think?
Marty: The leverage bag is a good practice aid. You could also use a couch cushion or bed pillow for the same effect. One of the most important aspects of the swing is having your hands in front of the club head on impact. That's the whole idea of leverage. Moe Norman often talked about leading with the left leg and lagging with the hands to maintain this leverage angle. Your wall drill sounds workable. Another option is to practice 1/2 sings on the range and focus on keeping your hands in front of the ball on impact - hitting "punch shots"
Question from Jerry:
I like your site and desire to help people. My question concerns recent changes in NG terminology
and teaching concepts, which more closely coincide with Graves' teachings. Although I like what
Todd and Tim Graves are teaching I think it's important to be aware that they are teaching what
a much younger Moe did. I'm not so sure that's the best route for those of us who are older.
After all, why did Moe change later? Anyway, back to the question. I notice that you still
advocate the older teachings of NG but how do you feel about the newer developments and
ideas they have come out with?
One other question
that I'm having a hard time with is concerning the lie angle of clubs.You state that regular
length conventional clubs with a standard lie angle will have the toe up in the NG setup.
I think the Graves' also believe this. I have tried hitting standard lie angles with a NG
swing on a lie board and find that my marks will be out nearer the toe. When I was fitted
for Ping irons a few years ago they set me up with plus one half inch length and 5 deg
upright and I hit them dead center. I guess I'm having a hard time with this reasoning
or either I am misinterpreting what is being said about this.
Marty:
I've read Moe's book "The Feeling of Greatness" but don't remember much about why he changed part
of his swing (such as overlapping grip and 10-finger grip). I suspect that he just liked to
experiment with different concepts. I do this too - I'm always looking for minor adjustments
that will provide more distance, accuracy, and consistency. Usually, I can improve one aspect
but take a hit in another.
As far as the newer developments in NG, I'm all for it. As I mention on my site, I'm not a pro and
don't pretend to be. I'm just a decent amateur who's found some success with NG and am interested
in spreading the word. I admire Graves' work and have bought several of his DVDs and his training
club. I can't think of anything that he teaches that I don't agree with - although I can't claim
to execute his concepts as well as he does. But I think it's useful for the NG community to see
different swings even if they have some flaws, just to support the basic concept of NG. You don't
HAVE to be a pro to play competent NG golf.
As for your question about clubs. I've been fitted several times for Ping clubs too. The first few
times were with my conventional swing. When I got fitted with my NG stance, my lie angle needed to
change. I went from a green (2.25 degree upright) to blue (.75 degree upright). My shafts are
1/4 inch longer than standard as I'm six feet tall. When I've held a conventionally fitted club
with a neutral lie angle with an NG stance (left arm straight out - rod position), I've noticed
that the toe is usually up several degrees. Frankly, I don't think this is a huge issue since
it will just help you hit more of a draw. It's only a problem for golfers who have a very strong
grip or overly active hands.
Question from Rick: I just started to experiment with the natural golf swing and noticed that my right arm (trailing arm, I'm right handed) is being bruised by the end of the club. Could it be my finish is incorrect?
Marty: Yes, something is going wrong if this happens. The end of the grip should be aligned with your inside right forearm but it should not hit it on your finish. You may have excessive wrist action in your swing. The Natural Golf swing should not be too "wristy". You do need to allow your wrists to rotate, with the right hand finishing in front of the left at the end of the swing. But you should avoid trying to snap your wrists.
Question from Tyler: Thanks for your website dedicated to Natural Golf. It's great to see and hear testimony from someone who has been using the method for awhile. I recently switched and have found my game improving almost immediately, particularly with mishits. I shot a 2 over par round with lots of fairways and greens where most of my shots weren't really pure. With my old swing, this would have spelled disaster, but with NG I was able to still get it around even though I didn't have my best stuff. I had a question about grips--I know Graves Golf advocates (for a golfer with a medium golf glove) regular-sized grips with three wraps on the lower and one on the upper hand. How does this compare size-wise to using the Lamkin Jumbos you like so much?
Marty: Glad to hear of your success with NG. As for your question, I can't give an exact answer because I've never used under wraps on my grips. I previously used PING grips which come in 5 different sizes. I used the two largest grips (yellow and orange) for NG but then tried the Lamkin Crossline Jumbo and liked the feel even more. I suspect that using a standard grip with a few under wraps would make it just one size larger than standard. That may be fine for someone who uses a medium golf glove. I use a large glove and prefer the larger grips. I think the most important factor is that the grip is large enough for your hands to hold securely and avoid twisting on contact.
Question from Ted: Thanks for a website that is easy to read, understand, and to the point! After looking at your grip video, I realized that my grip was incorrect. I made the adjustments, and shot a 80 yesterday. I am a 64 years old, a 14 handicap, and with your website, I think I can get down to a single digit. My clubs are Ping G5's with lite steel shafts, 1/2 inch longer than standard and 2 deg. upright. I am very happy with them. They seem to work well with the NG method. I noticed that your irons in the videos are graphite. Do you feel that graphite is an advantage? Why? I went to the Golfsmith website and found a kit for Lamkin jumbo grips. They also come in a corded style. Would this style work as well?
Marty:
Glad to hear about your success. Shooting 80 with a 14 handicap is super. I used to play with
the Ping G5's. I think they are excellent clubs. I traded the irons in a few years ago for
the Ping Rapture, which I like even more. I have the older G-2 3W and 7 wood which are graphite
shafts. My irons, however, are all steel shafts - but they are stiff - as are all my shafts.
I don't think graphite shafts are much of an advantage for the irons, but I like the feel
with the woods. They probably add about 10-20 yards over the steel shaft.
As for grips, the style is just a matter of personal preference. One of my friends has the new (blue)
Lamkin Jumbo. I really like the feel of these and may switch once my current grips (Lamkin Crossline)
get old. I also like the look of Graves' new grips. They are worth considering too.
Question from Rey: I am a 10 handicap conventional golfer, willing to try NG. I have been at it for about one month. It has been up and down. Hit some excellent shots and some bad shots. Very inconsistent on the tee. Took one lesson with an authorized NG in my area. Since the lessons cost so much, I am trying to do it myself. I bought a video from Graves, as you suggested to continue to learn. One thing I noticed is that holding the left arm straight that far away from my body may not be that good for me. My left arm may need some support... Just a thought! I have been so inconsistent that I am very disappointed with me and NG. Any ideas?
Marty:
My experience wasn't much different. The first few months I hit a lot of bad shots, especially hooks.
The stronger (than conventional) grip makes it easy to flip your hands and hook the ball. If you don't
want to spend big $$$ on lessons I would highly recommend a video camera to tape your swings. You only
need to tape about 5 minutes on the range to see what you're doing. But you'll probably want to do
this often, until your swing is very consistent.
My instructor had repeatedly noted to me that I needed to extend my left (lead for righties) arm into
the "rod" position. I had a tendency to let my hands drop down below my waist. However, this is a big
mistake in the Natural Golf swing. My experience is that letting the hands drop below this point takes your swing
off plane and leads to all sorts of problems; you can snap hook the ball if you come around your body
or slice it if you keep your wrists from rotating. Neither of these options is what you want.
I'd also recommend you review all the basics (grip, address position, backswing, impact, follow through).
The video cam has helped me detect occasional swing flaws that creep up. Usually, these come about by
trying to do too much, especially trying for more distance. I played a USGA tournament last month at
a course I've played about 50 times. However, I always played the white tees, which were about
6,500 yards. During the tournament we had to play back tees which are almost never available
and stretched the course to over 7,000 yards. I didn't play very well because I was just trying to
hit my driver and woods too far. Over the past few weeks, I've adjusted my swing and am having much
better success with a 250 yard drive.
My advice is to be patient and spend less time just hitting balls and more time taking videos and
analyzing your swing. You don't have to be a pro to see most things that look right and what looks wrong.
Question from James:
I realize that by trying to totally rebuild my swing
I'd probably get worse before I got better, but this is getting
ridiculous. From the outside it seems this is a simpler way to play, but
so far I feel like a beginner again. My bad shots on the course pretty
much run the gamut, shanks, skulls, tops, fat, thin, push slices or huge
pushes with my driver etc.... To say the least I'm pretty frustrated at
this point, but at the same time I know that I'm missing something and
I'm the problem not the natural golf system.
Anyway, I'm extremely frustrated
that a "simpler" method has so far been so maddeningly difficult to
achieve any sort of consistency with. To be fair I haven't had any
instruction (the nearest certified NG instructor is about 8 hours south
of where I live in extreme NE Wisconsin) plus I have been trying all
this with conventional equipment. Any words of encouragement? I'm
determined to make it work, just a little shocked at the steep learning
curve (at least in my place).
Marty:
Don't give up on NG yet! It took me several months of range practice and a number of lessons before
I was playing decent NG. I've never seen anyone play good NG without larger than
standard grips. Conventional grips don't fit the right palm well, it's like trying to hold a
pencil in your palm. I recommend getting at least one club, say your 7 iron, fitted with a
larger grip. I like the Lamkin Jumbo's. They are tapered; about 3" around the center and
3.5" at the butt end. Please try this and check out my grip instruction or the NG/Graves
web sites. The grip is the most important part of NG. If that's not right you'll have to
make all sorts of compensations in your swing.
My second recommendation is to get a video camera and tape your swing. No matter how good you are
you can't tell exactly what you are doing on your swing. Whenever my swing has gone off I take a
look at the video and find something that I'm doing wrong. My most common error is taking too long
of a backswing and not keeping my hands closer to my right shoulder. Once you look at your video you
can compare to my swing (which is pretty good but certainly not a perfect model) and see what's
different. I'm currently working on shortening my backswing to keep it below my right shoulder.
I'm making better ball contact but I am occasionally rushing my downswing. If you ever see videos
of Moe Norman you can appreciate his incredible consistency, every swing is almost identical, with
the same rhythm and tempo. My goal is to come closer to this model.
Question from Chris: I have been a single digit handicap up until 5 months ago I had rotator cuff surgery . I have been cleared to play golf, but totally lost my swing - completely lost it! I have enjoyed your site and tried the technique that appears to be much simpler and consistent. Except I can't even hit the ball using natural golf after 2 months of trying. Do you have any drills that will help me build this swing? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
Marty:
You have my sympathy. A rotator cuff injury can be incapacitating for golf
(and many other sports). The good news is that the Natural Golf swing is easier on all body parts and
doesn't require the precise timing of the conventional swing. I certainly think you'll get
your game back faster with NG than with the conventional method.
My best suggestion is to focus on chipping and pitching right now. Keep your backswing
short, hands no higher than your waist, and just try to make solid contact.
Here's one good NG drill that may help;
1. Practice short pitches one handed.
2. Hold a PW in your right hand only.
3. Address the ball in your NG stance (not too wide for pitching, with weight almost all on your
left (lead) leg).
4. Use the NG palm grip in your right hand.
5. Position another club with the butt end on the ground about 1 foot away from the ball.
6. Hold the second club with your left hand holding the club head.
7. Practice a short swing with NO body movement, just a right hand going back and forward,
inside the other club.
This drill helps develop the skills in the right hand, which does most
of the work in the Natural Golf swing. The left (lead for righties) just hangs on for control.
The drill isolates the right hand and takes your left side out of the swing. Once
you start hitting solid chips like this then add your left hand to the swing.
Hold off on full swings until you can make solid contact with your pitches.
Question from Ted: Are there any "checks" during the swing, that will insure that my swing path and swing plane are correct? I tend to swing too much to the inside and my club shaft is too vertical.
Marty:
Yes, there are a few checks you can do. The first is about half-way to the top of your backswing.
Your left arm should point nearly straight back from the target line with the club shaft forming
nearly a right angle (90 degrees) with your left arm.
The second is at the top of
your backswing where your hands should be about shoulder height and even with - or just
behind - your shoulder. You don't want your hands to get any closer to your head or you'll
be off-plane (too vertical).
Question from David:
My understanding from Peter Fox's book and my Natural Golf clinic is that Moe's swing began
with the club grounded 12 inches behind the ball. Your way makes much more sense to me. HOWEVER,
I was wondering:
1. what the reasons were for the twelve inches
2. what led you to change the "Natural Golf" swing on that point
Marty: Frankly, I'm not sure why Moe positioned his club 12 inches behind the ball. I heard once that he liked this position since it shortened his backswing - - it was 12 inches shorter. I prefer to match my setup position to my impact position. I certainly don't claim to know more about the swing than Moe - it's just that I find this easier for me. Moe would also tee the ball forward of his left foot on the driver. I think he did this so he could get more body weight behind his drive. He looks like a machine on video, but I can't make this work for me. I position the ball with my lead (left) hip with the driver. I'll slice the ball if I move it forward of this. You may want to check out Graves' website for more info on this; http://swinglikemoe.com.